Well, I was. :mneh
But I said I couldn't possibly accept so I made them nominate someone else.
Well, I was. :mneh
But I said I couldn't possibly accept so I made them nominate someone else.
So, just got back from seeing the film in IMAX and......well I'm not sure actually. I really have no idea whether I like this move or not. Granted the thing was cool as all hell and I could just go back to flying through the forests and mountains of Pandora for another hour.
The CGI effects are absolutely fantastic, especially with that odd tech that they used to paint the actors as the Navi. Didn't feel like CG at all, which was fairly amazing.
At times it seemed like they were really trying to pimp the special effects more than the story. It threw me off a bit, but I'll take gliding through the trees for a bit.
Movie is definitely a tad on the long side for me, like it was loosing some momentum.....or maybe the plot was just a bit too predictable. The story itself had a fairly stereotypical Colonial movie feel. I'd liken the movie very closely (in some aspects) to Dances with Wolves.
It's kind of funny, I made that comparison before I read any of the reviews on the movie. I only saw the trailer once and did not read up on this at all so I could go in with no real expectations. But, seriously, it was like a retelling of the Europeans vs. Native Americans.
Plot and dialogue had its ups and downs. Some moments you could really get in the character's heads and feel what they were feeling. The Marines bringing down the Hometree and the ensuing massacre actually had me getting emotionally involved. And that usually never happens to me during movies
At other times the movie felt really detached. Out of the group of 7 I went with the majority of them disagreed with me, who knows, maybe I'm just jaded.
Biggest gripe I had was too much moral book-thumping and going overboard on the shamanism. Despite the science and engineering backgroup, I really relate to esoteric aspects, but this movie pushed it a bit heavily I think. Still, it was interesting getting into the minds of a different culture.
Uhmmmm....anything else?
Sigourney Weaver - awesome
Zoe Saldana - Excellent preformance. Seriously, this girl made the movie for me.
Opinion when I started writing this post: ????????
Opinion after I wrote this post and had some time to reflect: Damn good movie, if a bit too predicable and a little preachy.
Definitely see this sucker in IMAX. You may get vertigo at times. But DAMN its fun flying through the air (how many times have I said that now?)
Anywho, later. I'm gonna go sleep.
Saw it. Loved it. Its terrific.
See it in IMAX 3D if you can, in 3D if you can, and just go see it!!! The culture of the Na'vi reminded me a little of the piggies from Speaker for the Dead, if that makes any sense at all - just the way their culture/land was just totally alien and not what a human might expect.
Sure the story was a little predictable in its broad themes, but I still think it was great. You should certainly check it out.
oh what a tangled web I weave
My next big vacation goes to Pandorra.
I think the world of avatar should get an Oscar for best supporting actor since it is really a driving force in this movie.
Technically it is a Character, as the whole planet has more 'nerves' and connections than a human brain. So, there is that.
If anyone's read the Furies of Calderon series by Jim Butcher, I was sort of hoping that the Na'vi would be like the Marat - each tribe bonding to a different type of animal. But then that would be copying, I guess. But when the big bullet proof freight train animals came tromping to the rescue I was hoping some Na'vi would have been riding them. Its all good though, I liked the deus ex machina just as well.
Story was completely predictable, villain totally one dimensional, standard Hollywood thing. It is not even worth spoiler covering the plot, because there really is nothing surprising in there beyond the basic premise. It's typical sci fi civilization vs primitive tribe theme and environmentalism. And at the start of the movie, I really felt none of the plot made any sense. That being said...
Holy shit batman on a stick, I absolutely LOVED it! And this coming from someone usually being a total snob about such things and swinging that critics axe very harshly for such movies. Yes, I came in with low expectations, not really anticipating much more than nice visual effects and turn off your brain, and it delivered as such, but surprisingly there was more to it than that.
First of all, I have to say Cameron is an absolute genius. In 77 George Lucas style, he comes and create this entire new universe that gradually just pulls you in until you're not even watching a movie any more, you're in a different different solar system far far away, in the future, and feels completely convincing. The budget is supposed to be one of the highest ever, with rumored figures everything from $200-300M, and it shows. 60% of the movie is CGI, but I can't say a single shot really feels like that, in best LOTR fashion. The flying vehicles, the creatures, and most shocking of all, those blue characters the Na'vi people, it all feels very genuine. But it is not only a visual extravaganza, it is also a film epic, and monumental craft of cinema history, worthy consideration AFI material due to technical achievements.
Why is it so good on a technical level? Well, first of all, the film was filmed with two camera lenses rather than modified in post production to give a convincing stereo visual effect, and this is where the movie really shines. Let's not kid ourselves, if you're walking into a small multiplex theater with a poor speaker system and a small screen 5 months from premiere at a $5 matinee without 3D glasses, or worse, watching this on DVD, you completely and utterly missed the point. If you do that, I feel sorry for you, you failed epically, you missed out the fun. You should see it in a IMAX theater or similar high end theater with a RealD Sony 4K projector in full 3D splendor. In fact, if you're not able to watch it in 3D, you should not even bother, IMO.
The reason this is important, this is really the first time where 3D is not used as a stupid gimmick, rather it is a natural extension of the movie that is completely necessary to reach the level of immersion the director intended. In many ways, this is really the first proper 3D movie, and that is why you should see it.
I should also mention everything from cinematography, makeup, costumes, editing, set design, art direction, sound mixing / editing is at the very highest level, and if it does not win an oscar for visual effects, it would be an upset. But enough of the technicals. This also happens to be a good entertaining movie because I actually ended up caring about the characters on some emotional level. What a shocker. The 3 characters pulling off the star performances are Neytiri (Zoe Saldana), Jake Sully (Sam Worthington) and Dr. Grace Augustine (Sigourney Weaver).
I was 100% wrong about my concerns for this movie. Narnia, Harry Potter, Golden Compass and an endless list of fantasy movies in the later years can go suck it as far as I'm concerned, because this is the first time since LOTR I really cared.
Highly recommended (in a good 3D theater, IMAX / high end movie palace)
5 stars out of 5
I'll probably discuss this in greater depth later but for now I just want to say that this film is a very welcome return for James Cameron, who really is a legend by the way, and its wonderful to see he hasn't lost his touch. I've been careful to stay away from this thread prior to the film's release for two reasons: first of all, I have to admit the trailers didn't stir me into the frenzy of anticipation I'd hoped, and secondly, I didn't want to put into words that I was dubious, despite my feelings on the trailer(s), because I wasn't... James Cameron is James Cameron after all.
This film was incredibly beautiful. I was awe-struck by the unravelling spectacle that was Pandora. The action was breath-taking and dynamic. The characters were fun and their stories engaging, and yes, the overall story is very generic and predictable but as long as its told well, which it really is, then that's fine with me. A generous sprinkling of humour lends the film levity and James Horner's score was not anywhere near as "wonderful" as I'd originally thought. Funny how a good experience can make you biased.
Oh also, this was my first 3D film experience. Now, I've seen old 3D stuff from years ago and it was rubbish then and worse now but I have to admit that I think the 3D in this film at least was completely unobtrusive and immersive. But... I have another "but". Let's not kid ourselves, as well executed as it may be, this 3D business is nothing to do with the "next-generation in the cinematic experience" but is simply a highly polished gimmick to cut down on piracy and get bums in seats in the cinema. Peter and I paid £9.90 each for a ticket, let's call it £10, and let's look back no more than two, maybe three, years ago when Odeon cinema tickets were half that price. Don't get me wrong, it was a very nice addition to my experience tonight but it is one I can do without and it's certainly no kind of landmark in cinema history.
Anyway, back to Avatar, awesome!
Edit: Actually, just read Yog's post... we're like two peas in a pod on this one.
Edit 2: Scratch that, I agree with everything except the 3D bit. As much as I liked it in Avatar, it didn't add anything extra at all, it was just different and nice. The film's visual splendour is still glorious without and 3D is still a bum-in-seats gimmick.
Last edited by Droo; Jan 19th, 2010 at 11:39:45 AM.
You should really read the interview in Variety for some of Cameron's thoughts on the 3D issue, particularly this paragraph, I bold the important bit for emphasis:Originally Posted by Droo
3D used for gimmick, that is movies like "My Bloody Valentine" where the serial killer stabs with a dagger at the audience, or "Journey to the Center of the Earth" where they make a T-Rex snapping it's jaws at the camera simply because it looks cool in 3D. THOSE are gimmick movies. Those are movies where they in post production go out of their way to make objects poke out of the screen. As a result, you forget that you're actually watching a story, and forget that you just watched a terrible movie with no redeeming value other than it being in 3D.
Cameron elevated live action film to a new layer of immersion where the 3D effect is not a distraction, and that is what it should have been all time around. It might not sound like such a big deal, but that's what makes it a milestone in cinematic history. Why is this so important? It's important because it sets an example for other directors to follow, and as a result, we may well see 3D used as a serious tool for a wide variety of live action 3D films when it was formerly only for gimmick films and animated features. It's no longer, "oh, we better not use 3D for THIS type of movie, because that would diminish the movie itself from an artistic point of view."
Actually, I saw Up in 3D and it pretty much beat Avatar to being essential to see 3D and not a gimmick because there is a whole world of depth that 2D doesnt show. That being said, Avatar looks like a whole different level and it opens on IMAX on Dec 26 here.
As an aside, 3D up to this year really has been nothing more than a gimmick. The whole crze in the 50's, the 70's and 80's was pretty dumb in retrospect, it was an idea looking for technology to make it more than a cheap jump. 3D has always been promising, promising, promising but never even gone close to delivering.
With UP, I can see the real beginnings of something quite different developing. This time, the technology and ideas are coming into being, so we can see, much like LOTR and Gollum, a truly huge jump forward in effects is here. Up I feel tho wasnt *QUITE* there, much like Jar Jar in TPM wasnt quite there as a pure CG character. Close, but something vital missing. Gollum on the other hand produced a CGI character that was "there" and was utterly convincing, the whole computer havign an argument with itself and you *buy* it still gobsmacks me. So TPM, we can see what's coming, LOTR made it happen.
I feel Avatar may by all reports (and I am lookign forward to seeing this) may have been the final jump to a true 3D experience.
Coraline was in 3D as well, and they didn't use it as a gimmick but to give the movie depth and a diorama type of look that was simply amazing.
In Avatar at times I really felt a little funny in my tummy when they were looking down over cliffs and things. Bleagh heights!But it was GREAT!
Point of fact, the original 3D, non gimmick movie was probably Dial M For Murder. The problem is very few people saw it the way Hitchcock intended because the 50's craze was dying out when the film was released.
But apparently he made effective use with depth of field using the device.
That said, I am not a 3D guy, and would probably rather see Avatar the "regular 2D" way. I'll probably see it Christmas Day
Haha me too. I didn't notice it until you had mentioned it. But thats a great point. See'ing huge vistas and amazing heights in normal 2d doesn't have any effect on me at all. But seeing that in 3d I actually held by breath and got nervous for the character...In Avatar at times I really felt a little funny in my tummy when they were looking down over cliffs and things. Bleagh heights!
I just saw it. Absolutely loved it. Its dancing with wolves but the story still really held me.
I went in with a total media blackout. I didn't do any reading up on the story or anything. I wanted to go into this as fresh as you could and it blew me away.
See it in 3D!!!! Its a must. The hype was that this movie would bring a new level to cinema and I think it did. Never have I been so held by a digital performance by so much CGI until I saw Avatar tonight. I found myself, waiting for the moments when the avatars would plug back in, because everything was so vibrant and beautiful.. I think it was something done specifically by Cameron when he shot the movie. The natives have a beautiful, vibrant, living, exciting environment. In contrast to the humans where everything was steel, gray, cold and indifferent.
Highly recommended. Must see.
Most badass moment - the Colonel slapping out the fire on his arm and running his mech out of the crashing ship, to land on the ground with the ship exploding behind him.
BadASS!
Just trust me on this one, you most definitely do NOT rather want to see it in regular 2D way. That's like walking into 1939 premiere of Wizard of Oz and demanding the movie being projected in black and white, or attending the 1927 premiere of The Jazz Singer with ear plugs. I would go as far to say, if you watch it in 2D, you won't really grasp the movie. That extra dimension is an essential component for the sensation of being transported to another world, Pandora. This is the way the director intended you to see the movie.
I am happy to see that everyone likes this movie so far. Once the lights went on again I took a shy look around trieing to figure out if it was just me having a great time as the geek I am or if it worked for everyone else... Finding out that Droo likes it kind of made me happy for an unknown reason.
Sure the movie is completly predictable. But in my opinion there are just like 20-50 good plots and the trick is to tell these plots better than the other guys.
I think Yog is right. The idea is not to tell a story with nice explosions and gimmick poke in the eye effects but about following Sam Worthington on his trip to Pandora. This is like a 3 hour holiday that starts at the starport and ends with you not wanting to leave.
Oh and Lilaena is right:
The commander is totally badass and so are the mechs with their combat knifes
Very much agree there. Beautiful lush environment, a rich tribal culture, and natives that you can really sympathize with. I have always been bugged to hell and back by poorly done CGI, especially when they attempt to make human like figures, which all too often spawns the Jar Jar syndrome. The only real convincing attempt in recent years was Gollum in LOTR. Cameron not only reached that level, he surpassed it. The natives act and convey emotions so naturally, it seems counter intuitive to even suggest they were made by CGI. I stopped thinking about it real quick, and pretty much assume they are real aliens. These characters are actually more lifelike and complex than the human actors. In contrast the human colonists appears artificial, one dimensional and actually primitive compared to the natives basic way of life. And then Cameron takes it to the next level and tells us a love story, and... it feels real. I was outraged by the attack on the life tree. Their whole culture and religion feels so pure, it's tempting to get plugged into one of those chambers and live the the life as a Na'gi in the paradise that is Pandora. Where is my bow and arrow? Where is my flying beast?.
Damn straight! And the ironic thing is, that's the sort of monochrome stereotypical villain I really DESPISE in movies. But because he is so badass with his mechas and hovercopters, and that scene in particular, it's a bit of a love / hate relationship.
Yeah, I can't remember experiencing anything quite like it actually. Those 2 hour and 40 minutes minutes felt more like 30 minutes. I'd gladly sit mesmerized and immerse myself in this world for 6 more hours.
Btw, on the note of remaining in the theater, did anyone else notice the god awful music by Leona Lewis over the end credits. A ghastly pompous ballade which gives traumatic reminders to Celine Dione's "My Heart Goes On". That was really funny, first people were applauding in awe. Then as people start to notice the music, everyone is in a hurry to evacuate the theater ASAP..
And someone else I know said the 3D was unneccesary.Just trust me on this one, you most definitely do NOT rather want to see it in regular 2D way. That's like walking into 1939 premiere of Wizard of Oz and demanding the movie being projected in black and white, or attending the 1927 premiere of The Jazz Singer with ear plugs. I would go as far to say, if you watch it in 2D, you won't really grasp the movie. That extra dimension is an essential component for the sensation of being transported to another world, Pandora. This is the way the director intended you to see the movie.
Oh please stop with this "You must see it in 3D" nonsense. You really don't and I'll tell you why, because this film is gorgeous. Now I know those in the 3D camp will say this is precisely the reason why it should be seen in 3D but the way they're going on about this medium, you'd think Avatar had no visual merit without it and this is far far from the truth. Now I have a unique perspective on this since I've never before seen a 3D film in the cinema, I've never watched anything in 3D for about ten years prior to this, and consequently this was my first taste of it. There's pretty much not a moment on screen in Avatar in which there isn't some part of the scenery warping out of the screen towards you; it is an immersive effect but if you have a bit of imagination, which I do, then getting lost in Cameron's wonderful world is simple and requires no extra technical wizardry to facilitate the experience.
What I think is that the reason why so many folks are going 3D bonkers about this film is probably because they've seen other lesser films attempt it in recent years and after all the mediocrity, they have a reason to celebrate in Avatar, a film that as far as I can see really gets it right. So maybe it is a revelation in that sense, it seems to be the consensus here, and if you are curious about 3D like I was then Avatar is certainly the one with which you ought to pop your cherry - it's not cheap tricks and jump out at your face stuff, just an immersive environment. It's pretty and nice and as a work of technology, brilliant.
Ultimately, all you will be getting is exactly the same film, the same visuals, the same sense of scope and grandeur, and everything else but in a bit of the 3D, wonderfully executed 3D but seriously, the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes.
It's not necessary to enjoy the movie, but it does affect the experience significantly. Read the review quoted 3 paragraphs down.
You make some excellent points, so I'm not going to argue too much. You mentioned 3D enhances the immersion in this movie, well the immersion is what makes this movie so good. Watching it in 2D is still going to be entertaining / look gorgeous, but 3D does make a difference in terms of depth to the environments and adds that extra cringe factor in the action scenes. Not to mention, the CGI characters come to life more.
I also want to touch upon something you mentioned earlier about ticket prices. In Norway, watching this at the best screen in the country cost me 120 kroner, that is $20.46 / £12.70. That's a ridiculous price for watching a movie. I seen a lot of stuff in 3D over the years at inflated prices, but this was the one time I felt it was all worth it and then some. I guess what I'm saying is, if you do have a choice, then absolutely watch it in 3D. But I'll concede if you don't have access to a 3D theater, by all means, do watch it anyway. It would seem a shame to miss out on such a gorgeous movie.
If you don't mind, I'd like to quote from a review that I very much agree with:
Avatar isn't the best movie of the year, and it's far from the best thing James Cameron has ever done. But it's an exciting fun BIG movie that may be the best 3D movie experience of all time. With a story that smushes Dances With Wolves and Aliens together, there's nothing particularly original here, but what you have is akin to Jimi Hendrix covering Beatles songs. The elements are all familiar, but they are executed with such precision and skill that it's simply a great theater event. Avatar is the kind of movie that you can't wait for DVD. Avatar is the kind of movie that you'll want to experience on a giant screen. And as disgusting as it is for me to say it, this $300 million monstrosity is exactly the kind of film that Hollywood needs to save it's ass from a future of $1 Redbox DVD rental kiosks.
I was a bit leery of the early looks at this movie. We've seen underdog primitive people fighting off superior forces time and time again from Ewoks vs. Stormtroopers to Japanese villagers fighting off bad guys with the help of 7 Samaurai. There was nothing about the story suggested in the previews that made me want to see this movie. And the 15 foot tall Smurf Aliens looked too silly for me to get very excited about. But the guy who brought us Aliens, Terminator 1 and 2, and Titanic had certainly earned enough credit for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. After watching it, I'm impressed.
I have not enjoyed 3D movies of late. As a 4-eyed glasses wearing geek, the experience of wearing 2 sets of shades to watch a movie is not a pleasant one. When I saw Fly Me to The Moon with my kids on IMAX, the double images were so nauseating I had to leave the theater. The 3D experience of Avatar was beautiful and seamless. I never once felt the need to take the glasses off, and didn't feel I was watching anything less than a crystal clear picture. Avatar is a 3D movie that doesn't rely on 3D gimmickry to tell the story. While the 3D is impressive beyond anything I've seen before, it's completely organic and immersive to the film. Above all, it makes the motion capture CGI characters so much more real than the 2D version would be.
Peter Jackson's WETA effects crew is behind the magic here and it's gorgeous. If you thought Gollum and the various beasts in the Lord of Rings movies looked great, you'll be impressed at the texture, depth, and realism of these creations. The eyeballs have a roundness, dimension and LIFE to them that I've never seen before. And the blending of "real" people and the CGI is as seamless as it gets. It's a bit goofy to look at for about 5 minutes when you first see the Na'Vi alien bodies floating in tanks and moving around at the film's beginning, but I had no problem buying into the universe and believing what I was watching shortly after that.
The eye candy is gorgeous. There's a scene where the lead character (a Marine named Jake Sully who remotely "becomes" a host alien body) is walking around with the female lead Neytri in the gorgeous Pandora planet's forest. Luminescient footprints are left behind, plants that make sounds and mushrooms that light up when you touch them, and beautiful sights abound. The 3D makes it as magical for the audience to experience for the first time as it must be for Jake. It reminded me of when the GOlden Ticket holders initially experience the candy garden in Wonka's chocolate factory, only turned up 100%.
The acting is first rate, too. Sam Worthington does a great job in "both" of his roles as human and Na'Vi Jake. Sigourney Weaver is still a commanding presence as a botanist who also becomes a Na'Vi alien. Star Trek's Zoe Saldana in a full motion capture performance is very intriguing as the Na'Vi princess. A supporting "evil corporate dude" role by Giovanni Ribisi is unlike any performance he's given so far, and Stephen Lang, who was so fantastic as Ike Clanton in Tombstone gives a brilliant performance as Colonel Quaritch, the battle scarred badass Marine who is just itching for war.
Avatar isn't a particularly deep movie, and it doesn't have anything to say that you haven't seen in other movies before (the climactic fight seems lifted straight out of a previous Cameron film), but it's likely one of the best moviegoing experiences you'll ever have.
I'm not going to deny it - movie tickets are expensive. To see it in IMAX it was $15.50 + the dollar 'convenience charge' because we bought ours online.
But it was worth it. So, so, soooooo worth it.
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